[foxtrot]

balagan, on 15 March 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

Well there lies a potential problem, what if expats start doing tit for tat and calling the police on Emiratis in Bars. Hey they might even start filming them on camera phones and posting the videos on youtube.

A UK newspaper has already done an article entitled "Sordid Arabia" showing a video of locals drinking beverages in a Dubai bar surrounded by certain type of "ladies". Don't forget that videos may be inadmissable!

[dakmor]

I'm sure that if the police had walked over to the couple in question and asked them sternly to refrain from kissing/touching etc, they would have just apologised and made sure they took it back to a hotel. But now it's on all the Worldwide TV channels..and has probably put another nail in Dubai's coffin for some more would be tourists thinking of coming here.

I honestly believe that the arresting officer will be sat at home glowing with pride that the arrest of these two people has made headline news across the world. This whole situation could have been dealt with so differently.

[Jennyr_au]

It's all still sounding very strange. I still wonder what a "wonderful" mother is doing having her children out at a restaurant, that serves alcohol, at 2am is thinking. I don't get it why people just cant' agree to disagree, law or not, were these people really being so disruptive to destroy their night?? And I still come back to the alcohol bit, if it is against the law to drink why in the hell isn't the authorities closing down every hotel in Dubai????????????? Very strange indeed!!

Jenny

[balagan]

Jennyr_au, on 15 March 2010 - 09:43 PM, said:

It's all still sounding very strange. I still wonder what a "wonderful" mother is doing having her children out at a restaurant, that serves alcohol, at 2am is thinking. I don't get it why people just cant' agree to disagree, law or not, were these people really being so disruptive to destroy their night?? And I still come back to the alcohol bit, if it is against the law to drink why in the hell isn't the authorities closing down every hotel in Dubai????????????? Very strange indeed!!

Jenny

Well from what I heard the 2 folks in question had been out for a drink with some friends, (0.22mg of alcohol were found in their blood which equals about a glass of wine). They then went for a late night burger down on JBR Walk which is where the incident took place.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were merely exchanging polite goodbye kisses and the whole thing was blown out of proportion.

[ecm73]

Maybe the couple should have said that they were drugged at some point during the evening (perhaps getting validation from a police officer) and therefore didn't have any control over their actions..... I'm sure I've heard that that is good enough a reason to get off with far more hideous acts of felony....... can't quite remember where though!! :scratching:

[em10]

Hi all...

in the uae alot of the arab families go out during the night (alot of the arabs ive met, start going out at 9pm and obviously may come home 3am onwards)...there is only a minority ( 1%)who would go out lets say during the morning or afternoon ( me and my hubby.)the malls throughout abu dhabi are not busy with local families during the normal uk 9am -5pm. its like a hidden norm...no one likes to go out during the sun..after sunset is preferable to them.

so the kids being up at 2am is normal,, believe it or not!
the couple in question must have snogged passionatly, (hmmm) i guess to offend the woman. i doubt very much it was a quick kiss on the lips.

the country has guidelines on what is acceptable and what is not. before traveling they should have familiarised themselves with the country they are traveling to..

but poor them ....the british man from what i saw (looks of arab descent..i might be wrong im not sure)please correct me if im wrong..so he would have had a very slight idea of the country ethics.

[chiara]

Maybe the woman in question wasn't getting any at home and was a bit jealous....I don't care how 'passionate' it was (which I doubt) at 2am you need to just mind your own business. It was an act of spite, nothing more nothing less.

[Global_Nomad]

Dear all,

I have two things to comment on here.

First, the 2 AM up-and-about business: I wonder how it affects these children in school the following day. Actually, I don't have to wonder very much at all. This nocturnal norm explains a hell of a lot of the academic underperformance I see.

And now for how far one has to go to offend: You know, I just don't buy the logic that leads em10 to conclude that the couple 'must have snogged passionatly [sic]'. From my limited experience here, nearly anything can be enough to offend the delicate sensibilities of some people. Things like mentioning the fact that [gasp!] boys and girls sometimes date before they marry -- at least in many parts of the world. Or that Arabic and Hebrew are related. Or that interesting scientific studies might have come out of that horrible place called Israel.

You may think I'm exaggerating, in which case I welcome you to spend a day in my shoes.

KR,
GN

em10, on 16 March 2010 - 12:22 AM, said:

Hi all...

in the uae alot of the arab families go out during the night (alot of the arabs ive met, start going out at 9pm and obviously may come home 3am onwards)...there is only a minority ( 1%)who would go out lets say during the morning or afternoon ( me and my hubby.)the malls throughout abu dhabi are not busy with local families during the normal uk 9am -5pm. its like a hidden norm...no one likes to go out during the sun..after sunset is preferable to them.

so the kids being up at 2am is normal,, believe it or not!
the couple in question must have snogged passionatly, (hmmm) i guess to offend the woman. i doubt very much it was a quick kiss on the lips.

the country has guidelines on what is acceptable and what is not. before traveling they should have familiarised themselves with the country they are traveling to..

but poor them ....the british man from what i saw (looks of arab descent..i might be wrong im not sure)please correct me if im wrong..so he would have had a very slight idea of the country ethics.

[borders]

What has that got to do with anything here? You compare a couple that "caught" kissing with a "country" ignored not just by Arabs but also by other people because they've been killing Palestinians over 60 years now. If somebody does not know that both Arabic and Hebrew are semitic languages from the same language family (just like Arabs and Jews coming from the same root) then that is because he doesnt know it. I dont think the reason is because it is a denial but simply he doesnt know, thats his shame. Israel can do interesting scientific studies, so what? How do I know that they wont use their technology and research on exterminating people? What Im trying to say here is 1. we shouldnt compare apples with oranges 2. its not just Arabs that have an issue with Israel. I do have issues with them just like I have issues with Serbia, Rwanda, Sudan, etc.

Back to the topic..

About the lady who caught the couple; Im sure she hasnt heard of something called "tolerance". "Rules are rules" : since when? The motto in UAE should be "Do anything but dont get caught".

I have to agree with Chiara here, maybe she was jealous :) Her husband doesnt seem to around with them at 2 am so maybe she was pissed off at him and she needed someone to attack.

[northern light]

http://news.sky.com/...d_Arab_Emirates
Apparently the country most Britons are likely to be arrested in is the UAE.
When I first came here 7yrs ago I was crossing Hamdan/Electra junction with my husband and at that time I didn't know whether to look left or right so I held my husband's hand.A car with an older, local - dressed man started shouting at us and raising his fist.I didn't know why, but later I realised it was because we were holding hands.I have noticed many young,local couples walking around nowadays holding hands but I believe I once read we are not allowed to show any public signs of affection including this.The incident 7yrs ago reminds me that I think the society has changed and is a little bit more tolerant.

[Geordie_Guy]

Just to clarify, me and my wife, holding hands in the malls etc.... which we do and we've never had a problem. Is this likely to ever cause a problem?

[Joey]

"Maybe the couple should have said that they were drugged at some point during the evening (perhaps getting validation from a police officer) and therefore didn't have any control over their actions..... I'm sure I've heard that that is good enough a reason to get off with far more hideous acts of felony....... can't quite remember where though!!"

Haha nicely put! :winksmile:

[Kathryn]

northern light, on 16 March 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

http://news.sky.com/...d_Arab_Emirates
Apparently the country most Britons are likely to be arrested in is the UAE.
When I first came here 7yrs ago I was crossing Hamdan/Electra junction with my husband and at that time I didn't know whether to look left or right so I held my husband's hand.A car with an older, local - dressed man started shouting at us and raising his fist.I didn't know why, but later I realised it was because we were holding hands.I have noticed many young,local couples walking around nowadays holding hands but I believe I once read we are not allowed to show any public signs of affection including this.The incident 7yrs ago reminds me that I think the society has changed and is a little bit more tolerant.

Hey thats a pretty good list for any visitors coming out...means I don't have to try and word it myself without scaring them half to death!!

[balagan]

Apparently this is all Napolean's fault.......honestly.

You see the law system adopted here is apparently based on the Egyptian system which finds its formation back in the Napoleonic era when France occupied Egypt. Hence the type of law here is what is called Civil Law. With this the laws are somewhat specific and the judge almost feels compelled to pass a sentence if any part of the law is breached. There isn't really much room to wiggle.

In most of the countries that were under the yoke of the glorious and sadly passed British Empire, they adopted a system of Common Law whereby the judge and authorities are given a bit more scope with regards to interpreting law and in fact the law evolves as society does through the use of case law and past judgements. So for instance if we had a law in the common law countries such as no obscene or lewd behaviour in public, the judge could utilise to some extent his own definition of what was considered obscene, and a kiss might be deemded harmless and the case dismissed.

Under Civil Law however it tends to be more prescriptive and sets out the constituents of lewd behaviour, so if someone admitted to kissing in public (whether passionate or not) the fact they kissed meant they broke the law hence they would be convicted. Under Civil Law the judge has a lot more power and to some extent acts as investigator, judge and jury - lawyers play a much less prominent role than elsewhere.

[my4qtees]

Just Me2, on 13 March 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

I'm Canadian and although you may be admin here, sorry, but ur comment is just silly..where in the world did u come up with that? Very irresponsible..just MY personal opinion though!

Just Me2, on 13 March 2010 - 05:47 PM, said:

sorry Tri-geek, but I don't know..must be more to that story...never heard of that in my life, and I aint dat young, hee hee

I can vouch for Tri-Geeks statement about CPS being called in a case of kids being out at that time of the morning - it takes one call and there will be a file open and a case worker there most likely with the police and the kids being interviewed (if old enough). Don't tell me I am wrong because I worked both in the courts and with the police back home in Ontario and I have seen more than I care to.

[Shannonlass]

This whole story has me rattled to be honest. My husband and I hold hands all the time and have kissed each other on the lips in public (in the malls mostly). After this I am afraid to even hold his hand. I know it's all about not getting caught but I sure as hell don't want to end up being deported or thrown in jail.

The damage this has done to the tourist industry in Dubai is significant. I have had a lot of texts from people at home who were thinking of visiting who are now really unlikely to as a result of this latest circus. I agree with the poster who said that Dubai need to decide what tradition they are. Don't posture as a western society if you aren't one.

[Lara Croft]

I don't believe the problem is the kissing or the drinking of alcohol. After all it is allowed to drink alcohol for non-Muslims if they have an alcohol license. An innocent kiss or holding hands are also not illegal as long as you are married. Public display of affection is frowned upon however, like short and revealing clothing for instance.

[talka]

I find it interesting that people are ready to condemn the actions of the couple without knowing all of the facts. As per the usual journalistic standards that seem to exist here in the UAE, the Gulf News Article and the recent article in 7 Days failed to provide any detail as to what type of kissing was witnessed by the Emirati child and/or the child's mother. (I note there are conflicting accounts as to whether the mother witnessed the offensive kissing herself). One would think that these details would be important, particularly since the female British tourist is maintaining that she and her friend kissed each other on the cheeks, and to my knowledge, there has been no evidence presented to put her credibility in disrepute.

I also find it interesting that Dubai (and the UAE) has been described as a conservative Muslim state. This certainly isn't the impression that I have made while living here for the past year and a half. Women are allowed to wear swimsuits and even bikinis on Jumeirah Beach which is just steps from where the kissing incident took place. I have even noticed young Emirati couples walking hand in hand on the boardwalk. The various billboards and advertisements (which are prominently displayed around Jueirah) feature beautiful women wearing loosely fitted abayas with hair visible (if an Emirati couple is portrayed) or women in western dress. Few advertisements or property development billboards show women in a traditional hijab (that would cover all the hair) and I have never seen an ad with a woman wearing a niqab. If this indeed was a conservative Muslim state, you would think this would be the norm.

Jenny - fully agree with your comments about the legalities (or rather illegalities) of alcohol consumption. Perhaps if a service charge/tourist tax was also imposed on public (yet tasteful) displays of affection, many "offensive" incidents could be avoided :)

Trigeek - I completely understand your commentary about the involvement of child services. From my experience, the same thing would also happen in the States.